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musicexpress
06-27-2007, 08:03 AM
My company just upgraded to Office 2007. Here are my thoughts/nitpicks:

1. Completely new user interface that looks much like Vista

2. All the classic style menus and commands are no longer there, need to struggle with the online help just to perform the same command in Excel 2003 or earlier. Steep learning curve for those accustomed to the classic Excel interface.

3. Excel 2007 always opens earlier versions in compatibility mode. It keeps warning me of significant functionalities lost as a result. Any idea how to disable that?

4. Apparently, Excel 2007 is able to handle more than 65,536 rows by 256 columns.

5. My VB scripts created in earlier versions appear to run into some problems in the new version. Tried troubleshooting but nothing appears to be wrong.

6. Files saved on Excel 2007 appears to be much larger size than the older versions, even after using the KillRows and ExcelDiet function.

7. When I select Autofilter to some criteria and tried to copy the filtered values to another worksheet, Excel 2007 copies the entire chunk of data over to another worksheet. This was not observed in previous versions. What has gone wrong here?

In view of so many problems, I would have each and every intention go get my IT dept to fallback to earlier versions. :banghead:

Any comments/workarounds would be most appreciated.

Ken Puls
07-03-2007, 09:54 PM
My company just upgraded to Office 2007. Here are my thoughts/nitpicks:

1. Completely new user interface that looks much like Vista

2. All the classic style menus and commands are no longer there, need to struggle with the online help just to perform the same command in Excel 2003 or earlier. Steep learning curve for those accustomed to the classic Excel interface.
Human nature is to see new=different=bad. Spend some time with it. I actually even like the UI somewhat now that I'm used to it.


3. Excel 2007 always opens earlier versions in compatibility mode. It keeps warning me of significant functionalities lost as a result. Any idea how to disable that?
Its supposed to open older versions in compatibility mode. If you want to convert them, save them in one of the new file formats (xlsx or xlsm). You're getting the messages because you're trying to save back to an old format that doesn't support features. This warning is a good thing, as it tells you what will be axed.


4. Apparently, Excel 2007 is able to handle more than 65,536 rows by 256 columns.
Correct, but you need to use the new file formats to get this ability.


5. My VB scripts created in earlier versions appear to run into some problems in the new version. Tried troubleshooting but nothing appears to be wrong.
Without knowing how you debug, or seeing your code, this comment is too general to really help with. I have had very little issue bringing my solutions forward to Excel 2007.


6. Files saved on Excel 2007 appears to be much larger size than the older versions, even after using the KillRows and ExcelDiet function.
Try using the new openXML formats (xlsx or xlsm). I have found them to be significantly smaller than the old formats. I'm not sure about saving to the legacy format from 2007 though. It could be bigger than in the past.


7. When I select Autofilter to some criteria and tried to copy the filtered values to another worksheet, Excel 2007 copies the entire chunk of data over to another worksheet. This was not observed in previous versions. What has gone wrong here?
Honestly, can't say. I found this inherently unpredictable in 2003 and earlier, so tend to avoid doing this.


In view of so many problems, I would have each and every intention go get my IT dept to fallback to earlier versions. :banghead:
Again, new=different=bad. Without question, there is a learning curve associated with the new UI. If you work with it though, you'll find that the commands are just in different places. I'll be the first to admit that the ribbon is not as efficient as the old toolbars for a pro, but they are still workable.

Aussiebear
07-04-2007, 01:49 AM
Good points Ken, but for someone who is new to Excel's real features, I have found that once I got over the frustration of not knowing where to look, well I'm starting to like 2007.

Its a huge learning curve. So if Musicexpress can be a little patient, it'l come to pass.

Bob Phillips
07-04-2007, 02:33 AM
There is no doubt that there are some nice features, colours, MRU, tables, extra formulae etc., but there is no doubt that it is a productivity downgrade. It takes more steps to do anything in 2007, so as they tout productivity and ease of use as thier primary objective in 2007, I feel they have failed miserably.

To me, it seems there are 2 very different aspects. Excel, with all its functionality improvements, and Office with the ribbon and task pane etc. Excel has moved on well, not enough IMO but maybe 14 will get further there, but Office has imposed 'MS knows best' constraints on us which are the biggest bugbear. It will be interesting to see how many large corporates will upgrade, how many copies of classic toolbar apps will get sold.

RichardSchollar
07-04-2007, 02:40 AM
This is a really minor bug-bear with me - but I find it irritating that I can't close Excel down by clicking on the top right cross (X) if a workbook is open on the screen - it just closes the workbook and then I have to click again to get rid of Excel. Is there some setting I have yet to find/apply to get around this?

I barely use 2007 - we don't have it at work for example. I'm sure this will change eventually though.

Richard

Ken Puls
07-04-2007, 08:14 AM
There is no doubt that there are some nice features, colours, MRU, tables, extra formulae etc., but there is no doubt that it is a productivity downgrade. It takes more steps to do anything in 2007, so as they tout productivity and ease of use as thier primary objective in 2007, I feel they have failed miserably.

I agree there, Bob. I think it's actually probably harder on those of us who have used the system and know the old Excel well than those coming to it for the first time. I think I understand why MS chose to go this route though, after all there are far more "casual users" than power users out there. The thing is that while it *may* be quicker to get a new user up to speed, there is now a much lower speed limit than there was.


To me, it seems there are 2 very different aspects. Excel, with all its functionality improvements, and Office with the ribbon and task pane etc. Excel has moved on well, not enough IMO but maybe 14 will get further there, but Office has imposed 'MS knows best' constraints on us which are the biggest bugbear. It will be interesting to see how many large corporates will upgrade, how many copies of classic toolbar apps will get sold.

I think that's a pretty good observation, Bob. I agree also that it will be interesting to see how those addins like Patrick's Ribbon Customizer, Toolbar Toggle and the like sell. :)

JonPeltier
07-04-2007, 09:17 AM
There is no doubt that there are some nice features, colours, MRU, tables, extra formulae etc., but there is no doubt that it is a productivity downgrade. It takes more steps to do anything in 2007, so as they tout productivity and ease of use as thier primary objective in 2007, I feel they have failed miserably.

I've found the same productivity decrease, and I've been using Office 12 in various incarnations since the last pre-beta version. I know where 75% of the commands are, and I can figure out where another 20% are hidden, while the last 5% take some hunting. There are added mouse clicks, and since I can't tear off menu palettes and drag toolbars around where I need them, there's a lot more mouse travel. Many dialogs are less efficient than before, because an old tab's functionality may now be split among two or more new tabs. Also, the MS designers have forgotten the best practices which they have even published for Vista programmers, e.g., use listboxes and option buttons instead of dropdowns, enable and select text in input boxes when an associated option button is selected, select an option button value when an associated text box is entered. And the new non-modal formatting dialogs seem nice until you try to use the F4 shortcut to repeat the last action, and the last action no longer includes all options set during the trip to the dialog. This to me is the hugest decline in productivity.

The enhanced features of Excel 2007 are not compelling enough to overcome the productivity issues, the performance issues, and the defects in charting in Excel 2007. For my own use I am sticking to Excel 2003, and I recommend that my clients do the same, at least until they've performed rigorus testing in 2007.


To me, it seems there are 2 very different aspects. Excel, with all its functionality improvements, and Office with the ribbon and task pane etc. Excel has moved on well, not enough IMO but maybe 14 will get further there, but Office has imposed 'MS knows best' constraints on us which are the biggest bugbear. It will be interesting to see how many large corporates will upgrade, how many copies of classic toolbar apps will get sold.

I've sensed this dichotomy myself, and I try not to blame the Excel team for the heavy-handed treatment they've received from the Office team. According to the Jenson Harris blog, the Office designers used tons of user data in the new interface design, but in my opinion they have misinterpreted some of it (or ignored alternative interpretations), and incorrectly interpolated across gaps in the user data.

But we'll have to deal with it. Yesterday I just picked up my second Excel 2007 client.

JonPeltier
07-04-2007, 09:19 AM
This is a really minor bug-bear with me - but I find it irritating that I can't close Excel down by clicking on the top right cross (X) if a workbook is open on the screen - it just closes the workbook and then I have to click again to get rid of Excel. Is there some setting I have yet to find/apply to get around this?
Richard -

Look for the setting to display windows in the taskbar, and turn it off. It's probably in the labyrinth that you access through the cheery merry-go-round button in the top left of the window, followed by clicking the Excel Options button.

JonPeltier
07-04-2007, 09:26 AM
Human nature is to see new=different=bad.

Perhaps this is an impulse. My first glance at the new interface was "Way cool!" After much working with it, I've decided that there are two relationships:

new = different = try it and see

not as good, defective, less productive, etc. = bad


Without knowing how you debug, or seeing your code, this comment is too general to really help with. I have had very little issue bringing my solutions forward to Excel 2007.

The changes are small, seemingly minor. But if I have to change only two lines of code in every Excel 2003 project that is now fully functional, I consider it a major issue. If it's just for my own personal.xls and other for-my-eyes-only workbooks, it's no big deal, but these are for major projects for paying clients.

Bob Phillips
07-04-2007, 09:30 AM
And the new non-modal formatting dialogs seem nice until you try to use the F4 shortcut to repeat the last action, and the last action no longer includes all options set during the trip to the dialog.

F4 has taken a real beating in 2007. One of the most useful productivity features has either been dumped or crippled.


... but in my opinion they have misinterpreted some of it (or ignored alternative interpretations), and incorrectly interpolated across gaps in the user data.

As I see it, they got tons of data, but the people who allow MS to collect that sort of data are not the key users. So there would have been very little data from real power users, ipso facto it was heavily weighted (to what they believed anyway?).

RichardSchollar
07-04-2007, 09:49 AM
Richard -

Look for the setting to display windows in the taskbar, and turn it off. It's probably in the labyrinth that you access through the cheery merry-go-round button in the top left of the window, followed by clicking the Excel Options button.

Hi Jon

Yes that worked - thank you. Except then I don't get the windows in the taskbar :( Which then presented another minor irritation to me which was how annoyingly tricky it is to switch Windows using the mouse in 2007 :banghead:.

I really am just starting to make use of 2007, and I find it all jolly frustrating!!! Bob - I think I should take a shot of the Sapphire and start again when it's worked its magic!

Richard

Ken Puls
07-04-2007, 09:54 AM
As I see it, they got tons of data, but the people who allow MS to collect that sort of data are not the key users. So there would have been very little data from real power users, ipso facto it was heavily weighted (to what they believed anyway?).

Oh, I can totally see that happening, and would seem to be right in line with how the ribbon has been designed. :yes There is no doubt in my mind that it caps the efficiency of the experienced developer.

In truth, I've spent significant effort creating custom tabs here to get the commands I use together again. Even so, it's still not as efficient as it was, and certainly more complicated to do than in previous versions. I do find myself scrolling a bunch to get to the commands that still aren't on my customized versions where I wouldn't need to before.

Bob Phillips
07-04-2007, 09:54 AM
Except then I don't get the windows in the taskbar :( Which then presented another minor irritation to me which was how annoyingly tricky it is to switch Windows using the mouse in 2007

You still have Ctrl-F6.

JonPeltier
07-04-2007, 12:46 PM
Hi Jon

Yes that worked - thank you. Except then I don't get the windows in the taskbar :( Which then presented another minor irritation to me which was how annoyingly tricky it is to switch Windows using the mouse in 2007.

Richard

Ctrl+Tab still works, the most efficient way to switch windows (unless you have too many windows open).

Or switch beck to windows in taskbar, and use Alt+F4 to quit Excel (or did they break that in 2007?).

JonPeltier
07-04-2007, 12:48 PM
In truth, I've spent significant effort creating custom tabs here to get the commands I use together again. Even so, it's still not as efficient as it was, and certainly more complicated to do than in previous versions. I do find myself scrolling a bunch to get to the commands that still aren't on my customized versions where I wouldn't need to before.

The difference between a custom commandbar in Excel 2003 and a custom ribbon tab in Excel 2007?

The custom commandbar is always available and visible. The custom tab is never (well, hardly ever) the active tab when you want to use it.

Ken Puls
07-04-2007, 02:06 PM
The custom commandbar is always available and visible. The custom tab is never (well, hardly ever) the active tab when you want to use it.

Yeah, well. Can't argue that. I try to get as many commands on my tab as I can to minimize it, but there are definitely times when I have to do a lot of flipping back and forth.

Of course, it is possible to make a tab that is just solid small icons like the old toolbars. A huge amount of work, to be sure, but completely do-able. For the power users who recognize all the little icons, not much would be lost except the time developing it. (Could pay back anyway.) Sadly, not much to be done about the tear away toolbars though (at least via the Office/VBA environment anyway.) :(

JonPeltier
07-04-2007, 02:18 PM
Ken -

You still have to activate the custom ribbon tab, no matter how well populated it is with the right buttons...

For the tearaway stuff and for other shortcomings of the UI, I've already given thought to a handful of modeless userforms, but I haven't done much more than dream about them yet.

Ken Puls
07-04-2007, 02:22 PM
For sure, Jon, I understand that, but if you have all your commands on one Tab, then the idea is that you could hopefully activate it once and never (or rarely) leave.

I'd be curious to see what you come up with in the area of modeless userforms. It's a shame we can't change to a metric clock with 100 hours in a day, isn't it? :)

musicexpress
07-05-2007, 07:22 PM
7. When I select Autofilter to some criteria and tried to copy the filtered values to another worksheet, Excel 2007 copies the entire chunk of data over to another worksheet. This was not observed in previous versions. What has gone wrong here?Honestly, can't say. I found this inherently unpredictable in 2003 and earlier, so tend to avoid doing this.
I checked with MS online help. What they said is to copy the AutoFiltered cells, before pasting onto a new worksheet/workbook, press F5, Special, Visible cells only, OK, then paste as Values.

Wouldn't have thought of this extra step....:bug:

rory
08-01-2007, 03:27 PM
Bit late to the party, but Alt+; still seems to work to select visible cells in the selection. However, my copy of Excel 2007 does not exhibit this behaviour anyway. Go figure.
Whoever decided that charts should become "Art" must be in management...

RichardSchollar
11-21-2007, 10:47 AM
Hi Jon

Yes that worked - thank you. Except then I don't get the windows in the taskbar :( Which then presented another minor irritation to me which was how annoyingly tricky it is to switch Windows using the mouse in 2007 :banghead:.

I really am just starting to make use of 2007, and I find it all jolly frustrating!!! Bob - I think I should take a shot of the Sapphire and start again when it's worked its magic!

Richard
Bill Jelen (aka MrExcel) came up with the best mouse-friendly solution to closing Excel in a single click - placing the Exit Excel button accessible from the 'Office' button mess on the QAT. This only requires being hit the once to close files (with save option) and the main Excel window.

Thanks Bill!

Richard

PS: Bob, definitely gonna have to do that drink sometime ;)

JonPeltier
11-21-2007, 12:06 PM
If you don't show all windows in the taskbar (which IMO is the sensible option), then the big red X will close everything.

RichardSchollar
11-21-2007, 12:39 PM
Hi Jon

Yep you already suggested that in an earlier post to this thread - but I like seeing the windows in the Taskbar, so the QAT is the way I have gone.

Richard