Aaron,

I think my main argument is not coming across, I have wandered off of the point rather than being specific.

Your arguments re the value of UDTs are totally right. In concept, I agree that in concept UDTs are great, it is just that in VB/VBA they suffer from a garbage implementation. If they were robust, as useable as they should be, I would use them. They aren't and they they aren't, so I prefer not to suffer the pain (even after 2 houres <g>).